Comments on: Designer Bait and Switch http://www.processedidentity.com/article/designer-bait-and-switch/ Creative Process of Logo and Brand Identity Design Wed, 25 Jan 2012 00:58:08 +0000 hourly 1 By: Tad Dobbs http://www.processedidentity.com/article/designer-bait-and-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-77 Tad Dobbs Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:39:07 +0000 http://processedidentity.com/?p=325#comment-77 This is a great topic, and there are a lot of interesting comments posted here. Many of which I honestly haven't thought too much about as a designer. I have been in many new business meetings and meet & greats at past agencies that I've worked for, and I can't think of a single instance where credit was given for the individual parts of a project. Nor has a client ever asked. A former employer of mine's website is 75% my work, and the way that the shop was run meant that you were your own island. Outside of invoicing you took everything from start to finish and their was no collaboration between the handful of creatives on staff. It's only been 2 years since I've left, but they just launched a new site last year featuring mostly my work. I never really thought about the fact that they are selling a product that they no longer produce. However, I have been very cautious in the launch of my new company to include copy that says that some work was completed at a previous agency. Had there been more involvement in projects from a team perspective I think this wouldn't matter, because I do agree with Tim's comments about the research and information gathering stage. Thanks for opening my eyes. This is a great topic, and there are a lot of interesting comments posted here. Many of which I honestly haven’t thought too much about as a designer. I have been in many new business meetings and meet & greats at past agencies that I’ve worked for, and I can’t think of a single instance where credit was given for the individual parts of a project. Nor has a client ever asked. A former employer of mine’s website is 75% my work, and the way that the shop was run meant that you were your own island. Outside of invoicing you took everything from start to finish and their was no collaboration between the handful of creatives on staff. It’s only been 2 years since I’ve left, but they just launched a new site last year featuring mostly my work. I never really thought about the fact that they are selling a product that they no longer produce. However, I have been very cautious in the launch of my new company to include copy that says that some work was completed at a previous agency. Had there been more involvement in projects from a team perspective I think this wouldn’t matter, because I do agree with Tim’s comments about the research and information gathering stage. Thanks for opening my eyes.

]]> By: andrea cutler http://www.processedidentity.com/article/designer-bait-and-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-76 andrea cutler Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:51:17 +0000 http://processedidentity.com/?p=325#comment-76 Comment*at the risk of pointing fingers and embarrassing the agency- I will say they are in NYC, The two principals have no formal training, and only hire freelancers, they no longer have national accounts, (we once did) and if they were to remove all of LG the creative director, and my work, they'd have nothing on their site. We are kinda over it. It is more aggravating in the case of the other indie designer (in NY) who farmed me the work and may be garnering clients that I could have competed for if only I had gotten the credit. Comment*at the risk of pointing fingers and embarrassing the agency- I will say they are in NYC, The two principals have no formal training, and only hire freelancers, they no longer have national accounts, (we once did) and if they were to remove all of LG the creative director, and my work, they’d have nothing on their site. We are kinda over it. It is more aggravating in the case of the other indie designer (in NY) who farmed me the work and may be garnering clients that I could have competed for if only I had gotten the credit.

]]> By: Tim Lapetino http://www.processedidentity.com/article/designer-bait-and-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-75 Tim Lapetino Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:44:31 +0000 http://processedidentity.com/?p=325#comment-75 Wow, Andrea. That stinks and has to be very frustrating for you--especially since it seems like the firm in question no longer has the ability to do creative work of that caliber. Seems pretty shady to me. It might be worth it to ask them to remove it. The other question is age of work--how old is the work people show? Our site is geared to be more historical, showing the depth and history of work we do/have done, up to the present--but we also try and replace old work with newer, fresher things. How do others do this, and is it less relevant in logo design work? Wow, Andrea. That stinks and has to be very frustrating for you–especially since it seems like the firm in question no longer has the ability to do creative work of that caliber. Seems pretty shady to me. It might be worth it to ask them to remove it. The other question is age of work–how old is the work people show? Our site is geared to be more historical, showing the depth and history of work we do/have done, up to the present–but we also try and replace old work with newer, fresher things. How do others do this, and is it less relevant in logo design work?

]]> By: andrea cutler http://www.processedidentity.com/article/designer-bait-and-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-74 andrea cutler Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:55:19 +0000 http://processedidentity.com/?p=325#comment-74 Comment* I don't know Steve, if they are ever asked. I can tell you the work on their current site is anything but current....Some of it actually pre-dates me, and is my old CD's work. We are still friends, but she no longer does design work, she is an art therapist now. She and I talked about this recently, that they don't have nearly the skills and talent to provide the same level of design we did to their clients - yet almost the entire portfolio on-line is OUR work. We both desided karma will win in the end. We are still on speaking terms with the two guys who run the office. But nobody discusses the work. Anyhooo... Comment* I don’t know Steve, if they are ever asked. I can tell you the work on their current site is anything but current….Some of it actually pre-dates me, and is my old CD’s work. We are still friends, but she no longer does design work, she is an art therapist now. She and I talked about this recently, that they don’t have nearly the skills and talent to provide the same level of design we did to their clients – yet almost the entire portfolio on-line is OUR work. We both desided karma will win in the end. We are still on speaking terms with the two guys who run the office. But nobody discusses the work. Anyhooo…

]]> By: Steve Zelle http://www.processedidentity.com/article/designer-bait-and-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-73 Steve Zelle Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:45:41 +0000 http://processedidentity.com/?p=325#comment-73 It would be incredibly frustrating to know someone is taking credit for my work. While I don't know what is legally right, it just doesn't seem morally right to me. Future clients are being sold on a skill set that is no longer available. Andrea, do you know how the individual still using the company name and showing old work addresses this when clients ask? (If clients ask) It would be incredibly frustrating to know someone is taking credit for my work. While I don’t know what is legally right, it just doesn’t seem morally right to me. Future clients are being sold on a skill set that is no longer available. Andrea, do you know how the individual still using the company name and showing old work addresses this when clients ask? (If clients ask)

]]> By: andrea cutler http://www.processedidentity.com/article/designer-bait-and-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-72 andrea cutler Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:29:03 +0000 http://processedidentity.com/?p=325#comment-72 Comment* In one case in particular, the client handed off the entire project including the creative brief, other than being the contact to the client I did all of the creative direction and design myself - off-site there were no signed agreements, I did get a 1099 at the end of the year though. Another situation was an agency who's partners split up. The Creative director (one of the three partners) and I collaborated on most every project. She and I left, went on my own, the creative director and I remained friends- one of the remaining partners (media guy) continues to use the original company name - the 3 partners initials, even though two are gone. And shows all of the original work we did on the website even though the creative team (myself and my old CD) have been gone for almost 10years! Comment* In one case in particular, the client handed off the entire project including the creative brief, other than being the contact to the client I did all of the creative direction and design myself – off-site there were no signed agreements, I did get a 1099 at the end of the year though.

Another situation was an agency who’s partners split up. The Creative director (one of the three partners) and I collaborated on most every project. She and I left, went on my own, the creative director and I remained friends- one of the remaining partners (media guy) continues to use the original company name – the 3 partners initials, even though two are gone.
And shows all of the original work we did on the website even though the creative team (myself and my old CD) have been gone for almost 10years!

]]> By: Steve Zelle http://www.processedidentity.com/article/designer-bait-and-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-71 Steve Zelle Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:35:56 +0000 http://processedidentity.com/?p=325#comment-71 Interesting comments from everyone. Certainly as Tim pointed out, the designer is not the only one responsible for the outcome of a project — credit should be shared. It got me thinking about the other creative disciplines involved in projects. How often does a studio take the time to credit others, such as a writer when a client is shown a design portfolio? If clients are not asking who designed what, are they asking who wrote, illustrated and photographed what? Do you think they should? Interesting comments from everyone. Certainly as Tim pointed out, the designer is not the only one responsible for the outcome of a project — credit should be shared. It got me thinking about the other creative disciplines involved in projects. How often does a studio take the time to credit others, such as a writer when a client is shown a design portfolio? If clients are not asking who designed what, are they asking who wrote, illustrated and photographed what? Do you think they should?

]]> By: Tim Lapetino http://www.processedidentity.com/article/designer-bait-and-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-70 Tim Lapetino Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:53:01 +0000 http://processedidentity.com/?p=325#comment-70 Andrea, did you sign a work-for-hire agreement for that work? If so, then your rights of authorship/credit could vanish as well. Another important thing I'm curious about--who art directed those projects? Did they task you with managing the client relationship? Did that firm put together the creative brief for you, and hand down the direction? While the agency might not have done the actual design work, these other elements are huge in the lifecycle of a project, and sometimes play a part that is almost as substantial as the creative deliverable, imo. So, it's my opinion that sometimes its okay that they don't credit a designer on their site. Though, if the agency doesn't allow you to display the work on your own site, that should be something you could fight for in future agreements. Thoughts from others? Andrea, did you sign a work-for-hire agreement for that work? If so, then your rights of authorship/credit could vanish as well. Another important thing I’m curious about–who art directed those projects? Did they task you with managing the client relationship? Did that firm put together the creative brief for you, and hand down the direction? While the agency might not have done the actual design work, these other elements are huge in the lifecycle of a project, and sometimes play a part that is almost as substantial as the creative deliverable, imo. So, it’s my opinion that sometimes its okay that they don’t credit a designer on their site. Though, if the agency doesn’t allow you to display the work on your own site, that should be something you could fight for in future agreements. Thoughts from others?

]]> By: andrea cutler http://www.processedidentity.com/article/designer-bait-and-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-69 andrea cutler Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:58:44 +0000 http://processedidentity.com/?p=325#comment-69 I think it is unethical for other designers who contract work to an independent contractor (such as myself) to pass the work off as their own, but it has happened to me on more than one occasion. And in fact there are several studios I have freelanced for who consistantly post my work on their websites and garner new clients based on my design work - but have rairly hired me to work on new projects. A sad but true state of affairs. I am very sensitive to giving credit where credit is due. I think that is important and good practices but unfortunately others do not follow those coded of ethics. I think it is unethical for other designers who contract work to an independent contractor (such as myself) to pass the work off as their own, but it has happened to me on more than one occasion. And in fact there are several studios I have freelanced for who consistantly post my work on their websites and garner new clients based on my design work – but have rairly hired me to work on new projects. A sad but true state of affairs. I am very sensitive to giving credit where credit is due. I think that is important and good practices but unfortunately others do not follow those coded of ethics.

]]> By: chopeh http://www.processedidentity.com/article/designer-bait-and-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-68 chopeh Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:30:42 +0000 http://processedidentity.com/?p=325#comment-68 I think they should be as open as possible really. An agency I worked for 4 years ago still uses all my work in their portfolio (I was the sole-designer for the vast majority of it). It's still in their, and they haven't added a single new piece of their own work since I've left. I often wonder what clients think after they agree to go with that agency and the work they end up with is nothing like what they saw before. Find it a little frustrating. I think they should be as open as possible really.

An agency I worked for 4 years ago still uses all my work in their portfolio (I was the sole-designer for the vast majority of it). It’s still in their, and they haven’t added a single new piece of their own work since I’ve left.

I often wonder what clients think after they agree to go with that agency and the work they end up with is nothing like what they saw before. Find it a little frustrating.

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